UPDATE: Did Southwestern Seminary President Paige Patterson lie under oath? If so, it could be relevant in pending litigation before the 127th Judicial Court of Harris County.

On February 25, 2008, Paige Patterson was deposed in the matter of Klouda v. Southwestern Seminary. While refusing to swear an “oath,” he pledged to “tell the truth and nothing but the truth.” (pg. 6)

In that deposition, the following discussion took place:

QUESTION: “[Joel Gregory] says in his book that you were actually terminated at Criswell College, and then that was withdrawn and you were given the opportunity to go to Southeast (sic); would that be correct?”

PATTERSON: “Not entirely, no.”

QUESTION: “And how would it not be entirely correct?”

PATTERSON: “The trustees actually offered me a second position as vice chancellor or assistant chancellor, I do not recall the exact terminology they used. And asked me to accept that position, which I declined. And after that, they re-extended me the opportunity to continue as president, but Southeastern made the offer and I went there.” (p. 10)

Nearly 10 years later, on November 11, 2017, Patterson was again asked about his transition from the presidency of the Criswell College to the presidency of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, NC.  On that occasion, Patterson responded:

PATTERSON: I was twice considered for president of Golden Gate seminary, now Gateway, both times passed over.  And twice considered for president of Southeastern. The first time I was glad that I wasn’t chosen because Dr. [Randall] Lolley had just left and I was very happy at the Criswell College, but unfortunately Louie Drummond, who was chosen, developed cancer and so he was only able to give four years there. And so when he rotated off, or when he left the presidency there and retired, then the committee came back to me again. And uh . . .

And uh . . .

Of course, I had been terminated at the Criswell College. Um.

And then they had . . . had second thoughts about that and had re-hired me.

Although I already knew, you know, that you don’t need to stay when the trustees are not in favor of you.”

Click below to listen to the audio:

 

 

In her February 2008 deposition, former seminary professor Sheri Klouda — who has an earned Ph.D. from the Southwestern Seminary though she has never studied at Luther Rice or the University of South Africa — was asked about her interactions with the seminary’s professor of theology, Dorothy Patterson. The First Lady was present at the deposition, as was one other employee of Southwestern Seminary.

Here are two of the more interesting exchanges, beginning on page 58:

Q:  When is the next time you talked or met with Dr. [Paige] Patterson?

A:  I’m not sure. It was a long time. I don’t know exactly what the next date is.

Q:  What was the event?

A.  Well, I — I believe at some point in 2004 — or maybe in the fall of 2004 I spoke with him and asked him to also consider — I think and I don’t remember if this is the case. I don’t remember exactly what the dates are with regard to that time frame there. That was, you know, less significant to me at the point — at that point other than I also proposed or said to him that would also he consider possibly me doing something at the college because they were getting ready to have a college and, you know, if that would help my situation.

Q.  Because that’s after —

A.  Yeah, I wanted —

Q.  — the summer of —

A.  I wanted to please Dr. Patterson and wanted to fit within what he wanted so that he could feel that he could give his approval for me to stay at that job.

Q.  Okay.

A.  I enjoyed that job so much.

Q.  But this fall of ’04 time period, that’s after the summer of ‘o4 when you learned that he would not recommend you for tenure?

A.  Yeah.

Q.  And the issue of looking for another place of employment came up that you described earlier?

A.  Well, yeah.

Q.  Ok. Now what — so after learning that, your — some period of time you believe in the fall of ’04, you were asking for him to reconsider his position on that those that taught men to be pastors ought to be pastor-qualified themselves and looking for an option other than that?

A.  Other — year, either that or realizing, you know, if he wouldn’t grant an exception in my case, then perhaps — perhaps he would — you know, would be able to find another place of service for me at the institution.  I was very — I was in a different situation from the typical woman, things were so reversed in so many ways as God’s hand was in it, so — but I will say this.  I also in several instances attempted to try and, you know, make overtures to Mrs. Patterson, is there anything that I might be able to do to help with the women’s program, if there are any of my skills that would be important there. She dismissed me summarily right away and I was sort of surprised that she didn’t make any kind of overture to me or try to build any sort of bridge with me with regard to perhaps using my skills and abilities in some way with the women because I would have been open to that and I’ve expressed openness to that. I did not know her and I would have liked to have gotten acquainted with her and understanding, of course, that she has constraints that are part of being the wife of a president of a seminary and a very busy woman. Still as of — a woman who had been educated at Southwestern Seminary, I thought perhaps I could make a contribution and I couldn’t seem to get to square one with her.“

And then this excerpt from page 63:

Q.  You mentioned that you — tell me about your conversations then with Mrs. Patterson.

A.  Well, one time I — the first time that I met her she wasn’t very talkative, but, you know, I mean we have those days. And other times I went up to her and did say to her that if there’s anything I could contribute to the women’s program and she said to me, “I don’t think so.” And that was all she said.

To access the entire deposition, click below. Readers may also find an interesting discussion about Dr. David Allen on page 76: